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Sunday, 26 May 2013

Why Don Revie is overlooked despite his achievements at Leeds

There was some anger expressed last week when the BBC listed the great post war managers, and overlooked Don Revie. Leeds fans, understandably, vented ire and made the claim for Revie's inclusion in the list of all time greats. So why was he overlooked?

Leeds fans will, of course, blame Southern bias and all that baloney, but the truth of the matter is that Revie remains something of an embarrassment - in part because of the way his great Leeds team played (and I have not used that adjective sarcastically) but mostly because he was found wanting when in charge of England, and then betrayed the nation when taking the oil money and walking out on his country.

Again, those who love him will make the excuse that Revie only walked because he knew the FA were about to stab him in the back, but that misses the point. Revie left the England job in 1977, and in 1973 OPEC (the Organization of Arab Petroleum Exporting Countries) had plunged the Western world into recession. Rightly or wrongly, many in Britain held the Arab nations to blame for losing their jobs and for the pain of cost push inflation, allied to soaring unemployment.

It was against this backdrop - and there were 5.6million unemployed  whilst inflation was running at a terrifying 15.8% - that Revie jetted off secretly to the United Arab Emirates, selling his story to the Daily Mail before he had even told the FA he was going. His massive salary - £340,000 for four years - seemed to confirm what everybody thought, that the Arab nations were destroying our once proud nation because of greed. And Revie was regarded as a traitor.

None of that should detract from Revie's achievements at Leeds, but some will argue that his record was not that great anyway. The big criticism of Revie's reign at England was that he was negative and concerned more with stopping the opposition than playing to England's strengths, and despite the fact that Leeds had far and away the best squad of players in the country in the early 1970's, Leeds had a terrible habit of coming second.

But even allowing for that, Revie, of course, deserves huge credit for what he achieved at Leeds, but his skills did not transfer to England - along with McLaren he is the only England manager to fail to qualify for two major tournaments - and his treachery and greed live longer in the memory for all non Leeds fans. For this reason, he will never be acknowledged as a great by anybody outside of Leeds.

77 comments:

  1. like i expected a balanced non biased story from you hf.you are a joke.MOTD listed ron greenwood?? how can that be justified??football was a mans game back then but the leeds team played some of the best football ever seen by a british club side. you are about a week late with this article nd to do it today is really disrespectful.shame on you

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    1. So do try to explain how this article is biased.

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    2. as soon as i saw the article on news now i knew exactly what it would say.you have mentioned it all before and you have stated how much you hate leeds united and how bitter you are towards the leeds team from the 70s.so how can your opinions be unbiased?

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    3. Well, quote imbalance from the article.

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    4. 'but the truth of the matter is that Revie remains something of an embarrassment - in part because of the way his great Leeds team played'-based on what? on one west ham fans opinion.you dont seem to know where youre going with this article,how many managers have failed as england boss? but don revie achievement at leeds united cannot be overlooked.he took an average side from a rugby town and transformed them into a powerhouse of european football.
      anyway,it was john motson reading the managers names on MOTD.im not surprised he didnt mention don revie!

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    5. No based on the fact that Leeds fans themselves adopted the nickname Dirty, Dirty Leeds. It was the perceived cynicism of the team - not helped by Jack Charlton's Little Black Book claim, Hunter's "Bites Your Legs" nickname and Bremner's Charity Shield sending off and subsequent tantrum - that made the team an "embarrassment" to a nation that prided itself on good sportsmanship. I'm not saying that the feeling was justified, but it existed, and Leeds fans made it worse by revelling in the reputation.

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    6. where is the proof that leeds made an embarassment to the nation????i hate to say this but it is similar to the man utd thing nowadays,fergie time and all that.leeds became the pantomime villain and the media jumped on the bandwagon and have done ever since to be honest.

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    7. My reply may surprises you, but I agree with you to a large extent. A lot of the time, that Leeds team were a credit to the game and played some wonderful football, and no, the reputation wasn't fully deserved. But sadly, Revie created a bunker mentality and the fans enjoyed the "Everybody hates us" claim. So, if you play the pantomime villain, you can't complain when people hiss and boo. It was a shame, because with a less defensive approach (in terms of dealing with the media), the team and club would have been regarded with much more respect.

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    8. the leeds team from that era ARE regarded with a lot of respect from many football people.some of the most talented players of their generation-6 leeds players were selected for the 1970 world cup. Don revie's reputation was tainted after he took the england job and that is why he was left off that list in my opinion,and that is wrong.

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    9. Isn't that what I say to a large extent?

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    10. whilst also dismissing everything that leeds achieved during that era....

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  2. you are just bitter cos west ham are a fuckin no mark team and always have been

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  3. Why is this a balance post from hammersfan? Or just another stab at Leeds fans in the guise of a balanced view?

    The fact of the matter is no matter what you post on here now hammersfan you have now tarnished any credibility you may have once had (if at all).

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    1. he cant grasp that.hes like the boy who cried wolf

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    2. Understandable blog from HF. Good repostes from Anonymous - wish you had a name. Of all the stuff that appears on NewsNow this is always the most entertaining except when Leeds fans start typing expletives. C'mon we are better than that. For me its an absolute disgrace that Revie was missed off the list when managers such as Greenwood were included. What did he achieve as an England manager and 2 did he ever manage a team that dominated the land for nearly a decade? MOTD should be ashamed because it undermines their credibility if they still have any these days. MOT

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  4. Why would England want to appoint a crap manager? He was the best at the time...

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    1. Arguable. Many thought Clough was.

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    2. I understand it's arguable but, if Clough was better (at that particular time) he would have been offered the England job infront of him, and if Clough was better (AT THAT PARTICULAR TIME) why couldn't he manage the players at leeds when he took over and continue to make the team a success? If you say the players wouldn't play for him then he clearly wasn't doing his job properly! Sometimes a player needs a kick up the arse and sometimes a player needs an arm around him and Clough didn't know which way to go! Just my opinion but do you think I am right or wrong? Please feel free to comment

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    3. You are wrong. Clough criticised the FA and was anti establishment so was never going to be given the job. They probably also knew about his drinking. It would be like making Di Canio England manager today! (Not that I am suggesting he drinks). The fact is, Clough won more trophies than Revie, did it with smaller clubs and did it with two teams. Stats suggest Clough was the stronger of the two therefore.

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    4. I am not dismissing that, I am saying(at that time)he wasn't a better manager, review was the best at the time for England, as the original poster suggested! I am not taking anything away from Clough and his achievements cos it was quite remarkable

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    5. So....Clough had the record for most games unbeaten in the previous season completely humiliating virtually every team his side played, then? It is debatable NOW whether Clough was as good as Revie not in 1974 though I'm afraid. Do your research (shouldn't be too hard as your first kid was probably born then).

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    6. 'did it with smaller clubs'. Revie made Leeds what it became, both Dery and Forest were arguably bigger clubs than Leeds, richer and had past tradition and success. Clough was a cheque book manager, he spent big money, he broke transfer records at both Derby AND Forest, so the idea he was some underdog, is baloney. Revie took on a club that was drowned in debt at the time, it became debt free under his stewardship and had no past record of success, or nothing like the fanbase or scope that it became. Built a side with kids and cheap signings/unheralded players.

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    7. I think what it shows is that club management and international management are two totally different skills. Many experienced pundits like John Motson agreed Clough would not have succeeded as England manager, like Revie his style required him to be near the players all the time

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    8. If Leeds United was too big for Clough how on earth could he have coped with the national side (even hand held by Taylor)?

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  5. This is backed up with facts not sure how it can be argued that his article is unbiased when HF has clearly mentioned his achievements with Leeds as well as the downsides

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  6. You are churning out Leeds posts faster than the time it took Gold and Sullivan to start selling dildos moulded on Big Sam's todger. Heard your wife got the buy one get one free offer last week.

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    1. is wife as a puncher. he tried giving her a love bite and she farted and blew bubbles out of the window. you TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL

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  7. have a read of this hf.
    https://wiki.leeds.ac.uk/index.php/%E2%80%98Dirty_Leeds%E2%80%99-_The_making_and_legacy_of_a_reputation

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  8. Don was a great and always will be,let him and billy rest in peace,true legends of a great team that changed the way the game is played today and rightly so they shud hold there heads high as massive greats of the game we all love

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  9. You'll never be a writer if you just stick to lazy bandwagon-jumping. Too many others doing it, and doing it better. Obviously you get hits writing about Leeds, and the more so if you set out to be inflammatory and irritating. I guess that's what it's all about for you. I do something similar against Man U - but I do it better than these lame efforts of yours.

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  10. I don't blame you for this one HF. As a West Ham supporting Londoner you were bound to find it more comfortable to follow the media's spin on the Revie era.

    Those improbable upstarts from Leeds coming from nowhere and upsetting the establishment as they did.

    For those with a more open mind and less consumed by jealousy Revie actually did a very good job and the team he created played the same way as all the other teams of the day - only better.

    Revie failed as an England manager and was about to be sacked. He fell on his sword before it was too late and worked abroad to secure his future. If either of those two things are a crime then I'n surprised to hear it.

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  11. This article is not very objective. Revie developed a very good Leeds team from almost nothing and won major trophies. He was also diagnosed with serious illness when he left England job. The fact is that there have only been a handful of really good English managers and Revie was one of them!

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  12. Theres only one DON REVIE.

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  13. You was brought up a hammers fan but clearly dreamed of being a whites fan not being able to tell your family & friends clearly made you bitter there for taking it out on us don't worry we will take care of you ya silly looking misfit

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  14. With respect mate you know nothing of 'greats''. It's a sad fact that you will never know what it's like to win a league title. That my friend is why we will always be bigger than West Ham and this obsession of yours will continue. I understand it now.

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  15. Either you are very stupid or you are very disrespectful to chose The Don as a subject to write on. I will go with both! Hurry up and fuck off or better still die. MOT

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  16. The fact that someone like Revie could not succeed with England, while he was high in demand elsewhere, tells you everything you need to know why England are such a failure at football, the game that was supposedly invented in this country. Do you honestly expect me to believe that people would supposedly hate a team, and then be desperate for the man who created that team to be the manager of the national team? The only reason Leeds were hated was pure jealousy, resentment. Everton, Manchester United, Sunderland all lined up with lucrative offers for Revie, yet he managed this hated team, MORE LIKE ENVIED TEAM. If anything Leeds fans should be the ones who should be angry at Ingurland, the useless, inept, corrupt establishment, for taking their manager, and then being so pathetically incompetent, they could not even succeed with him.

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  17. This article sums you up!
    You haven't got an effin clue!
    Shirt fronts like you being able to post articles, sully a great man and a great managers name. I'm all for free speech, but stick to writing about a subject you're an expert on. Sewage farms would be a good starting point.

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  18. "The big criticism of Revie's reign at England was that he was negative and concerned more with stopping the opposition than playing to England's strengths"
    -Rubbish. Revie won every game with England and was undefeated in his first year, including some thumping victories against Scotland, Germany and future european champions czechoslovakia. The bad results only came when he lost Colin Bell and Gerry Francis, no manager could have succeeded without those two, the England team was average with them, never mind without them. It was an average period of English talent all round. Bobby Robson had a far superior lot to select from and he had an arguably worse record than Revie

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    1. What cobblers. Revie's win percentage as England manager was 48.3%, Bobby Robson's was 49.5%. Robson took England to a World Cup quarter final and was robbed by the Hand of God; Revie took England into the wilderness.

      Revie had at his disposal Brooking, Currie, Hudson and the young Hoddle and Robson but lacked the vision to use them properly.

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    2. However when Revie managed England there was only one qualification place per nation, Robson laboured to qualify in much weaker groups than Revie had.First of all Brooking was used alot by Revie. I have seen alot of what Revie and Les Cocker wrote on the players and the advice they gave to them. He wanted Currie and Hudson to become fitter and improve his lifestyles, so they could perform week in week out, but they largely did not heed his advice. From what I have read of the stuff Revie and Cocker wrote on England and the players they had to select from, they broke down just why and how England had failed in the world cup in 1974, most of what Revie and Cocker wrote still rings true today, none of the lessons have been learnt.

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  19. Headline in the Guardian in septempber 1973 "Revie's style of football puts pressure on Alf Ramsey". Goes on to explain why Leeds football is the most superior in the country and Ramsey's negative midfield line up will lead to his sacking!

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  20. Also you accuse Revie of being negative, don’t make me puke with that old myth. Leeds were admittedly defensive under Revie in the early years, but from 68 onwards they were arguably a total football side, some of the best football the country had seen up to that point. The great irony is that Leeds lost the title in 1971 playing constant attacking football, to one of the most boring, soul destroying Arsenal sides imaginable.

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    1. I don't "accuse" him of anything. He was accused of being negative as an England manager by the players! In fact, I quote myself in reply to your stupid point: "A lot of the time, that Leeds team were a credit to the game and played some wonderful football, and no, the reputation wasn't fully deserved. But sadly, Revie created a bunker mentality and the fans enjoyed the "Everybody hates us" claim."

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  21. And I understand the point you’re making about OPEC, however the fact remains it has little if anything to do with it. The horrific reaction towards Revie walking away was totally unjustified towards a man who had given up the chance to win other honours with his club, like the European cup; solely to try and make England successful again. And what thanks did he get for doing it? Treated very poorly by the playing staff, the FA, the press,fans, everyone. Maybe if people had been abit more supportive of Revie and open minded, England would have a world cup in the trophy cabinet. I think in Revie, Leeds lost a great manager and England missed out on one.

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    1. The OPEC point is hugely important I'm afraid. England as a nation was on its knees and people thought the Arab nations were responsible. Had Revie taken a job back at Leeds, or anywhere in Europe - except Germany - it would have been accepted. Also, the decision to sell the story to the Daily Mail was disgusting.

      As for your defence of his England record, I'm afraid you can't win competitions that you don't even qualify for!

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    2. Revie openly admitted he was wrong to sell his story. However they were seeking his replacement in the same paper while he was still in the job. They were humiliating him and expected him to wait so they could publicaly sack him. Im not defending his England record, im saying if he'd been treated differently by press/players/fans/fa/etc, maybe his England record would have been better. Or maybe if he had not been criticsed so strongly for losing against the best team in the world at the time Italy, and the FA had not openly sought his replacement, maybe he would have decided to stay in the job, and with the easier group in the next tournment, the growing pool of new players to select from, he would have grown into the job more and maybe become successful. With respect to Ron Greenwood, he wanted out of the job himself by 1981, before England had even qualified, his players had to persuade him to stay. I just wonder if things might have been different and Revie had still been in the job, England might have won done abit better

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    3. if you are offered a job with better pay and know you are getting the sack, anybody in there right mind would seek another employer. he had to securer his future. The Don knew he was ill and he made sure Elsie and there kids had a secure future.

      you are just perfetic. R.I.P Don Revie. MOT

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  22. Embarrassment or not he was still a great manager taking a team from the foot of the second division to win league, cup and European titles with little money to spend. Who knows why Revie left England maybe he couldn't stand being managaed by amateur idiots who knew nothing of the game.

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    1. And the FA at the United Arab Emirates was packed full of footballing professionals wasn't it? Everybody knows why he went: money!

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    2. WHO TURNS BETTER PAY DOWN YOU PRICK

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  23. Dirty Leeds originates from the industry that the city used to have noththing to do with the football team it was used by the press years latter do your home work HF

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    1. I must have coined it then, because I called you Dirty Leeds back in 1971!

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    2. I think this probably sums you up. Supporter of a poor side, embittered and resentful from 1971 to 2013. Get over it man.

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    3. It come from the 50s dickhead

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    4. Dirty Leeds was a chant by Everton supporters at an FA Cup 4th round match at Elland Road on 30th January 1965. This followed the match on 7th November 1964 at Goodison Park where the referee took both teams off the pitch because a free for all took place. Sandy Brown of Everton was sent off and Wllie Bell scored the goal in a game Leeds won 1-0.

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  24. Ok let's just end this pointless debate once and for all. As a football fan back then would you have changed places with us? Look it up in the dictionary mate it's still jealousy however you try and mask it.

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  25. I agree on the FA seeing Revie as a traitor, maybe he had taken Leeds as far as he could but I think it was a mistake taking the England job. England have been looking for glory since 1966,but have been tripping over the same rock every time a manager is appointed. Reality, The English League is the best, or one of the best in the world but the English players are not.As for our friends at the BBC:Clean out your own closet first.

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  26. This Juan Kerr has never experienced our highs or suffered our lows. He has no concept of following a football club that literally gets into your blood. We give him oxygen on a daily basis by responding to the bile he writes. I think from the volume of negative responses, he gets some sort of kick out of our comments. After all who would bother to post about West Ham. Cad sunt sums him up. End of! And he never responds to anyone telling him what he is, whats that all about?

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  27. Revie was a great man manager,well before anyones time cockney boy.leeds have been disliked for many years,from teams,who are not even our rivals.every away game,we can allways here the predictable we all hate leeds song.im not old enoughh to remember the team of the 7os,but watching them on videos,they were a class above.bad luck or lack of bottle,stopped that team winning more trophies.i actually like the fact nobody likes us.seige mantality and all that.fuck the bbc,revie will allways be a god in our eyes.

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  28. FAT SAM FOR ENGLAND AND HOOF BALL AS WELL

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  29. A very disrespectful article on the 24th anniversary of Don Revies death

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  30. OPEC isnt just arab by the way!!

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  31. OPEC isnt just arab by the way!!

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  32. don revie is legendery to all leeds fans. he made us a great club. no one ever can take that away from him. keep supporting your historyless tin pot club and stop spouting the crap you do day after day. TOSSER.

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  33. Ive just lived through Man Utd with the biggest cheating w*nker ever to manage a football club for the past two decades, never can you say anything by comparison to a player (cantona) jumping into the crowd and kung fu kicking a supporter, diving, kicking lumps out of players at free will, running the length of a pitch (Neville) to goad Liverpool fans, This Man Utd team portrays everything that is wrong about football, and that's without their financial hiccups, and signing illegal players. Don't ever say Leeds were bad, Half of the Premier league is corrupt way beyond any 70's team no matter who they were....
    Hf....it's time for you to f8ck off and do something usefull, your shit is continued bollocks about nothing

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  34. If the BBC make their list, that's their choice, guess who works for them....... without doubt the dirtiest player to ever wear an England shirt, but was the FA's golden boy...... Shearer.
    BBC know fuck all about football, maybe they have a lot in common with you

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  35. 12 months to find the one thing that gets to Leeds fan more than anything !!!!! There is only one thing that gets to us more and your too thick to stumble in to it !!! You don't give a fuck your getting hits dick head

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  36. Guck off wanker

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  37. Just one question.

    How old are you mate? Were you even walking or talking when Don Revie was Leeds Manager, or are your half baked opinions something you picked up from elsewhere?

    Jepo, Leeds

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  38. Britain was a net exporter of oil and oil related products by he late 70's. Your hypothesis is not only biased it is factually incorrect. Nice try HF but you are wrong. Even if you are suggesting that sentiment was anti-Arab, I think that is just the wishful thinking and a poor attempt to draw a parallel between Revie's departure and our current ownership.

    Better to concentrate your mind on the forthcoming, Caroll-less, relegation battle for West Ham. Here, you might find the fortunes of your club more closely aligned to the state of the soft porn and dildo industry than the macro economic state of the oil markets!

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    1. As Van Morrison might say....that was a wonderful remark!

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  39. The truth is that those players should have won a hell of a lot more than they did. They came second too often. The best 11-15 players in Europe to failed to win the European cup, and yes the dodgy refereeing did not help!

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    1. They were victims of their own success, at the death in virtually every competition they played in. This was long before squads as we know it were available. It was more or less the same 11 that played every game. Beating that fu**in dull Arsenal side (Graham et al) in 1972 before needing to go to Wolves 2 days later to clinch the double. Unbelievable when you think about it. I wonder how Sir Alex would have responded to that?

      Leeds were definitely the team of the '70s, few could argue with that. Liverpool were the team of the '80s and as much as it pains me to say Scum were the team of the '90s and '00s.

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  40. Here you are LF. Try reading a bit of decent prose by Rob Atkinson. Read & learn son, read & learn

    http://www.newsnow.co.uk/A/647734493?-11130:816

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  41. Bremner was managed by Clough when he pulled off his shirt. You'll be blaming Revie for Bobby Moore nicking the bracelet next.

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  42. Patrick Hogan, Leeds28 May 2013 at 11:31

    Revie won 2 League titles; the F A Cup; the League Cup and 2 UEFA Cups over a period of 10 years in the First division. This alone should have had him included in the BBC's list - and yes, ahead of Ron Greenwood and his 2 cups.

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